Thoughts on this?

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 02/15/2018 at 10:35 • Filed to: None

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A quarter of a dollar tax on every gallon of fuel?

YES. I know it’s for infrastructure, but it has secondary effects. Like making you act short sighted, meaning, buying more fuel efficient cars.

If that gets you to buy more fuel efficient cars, I agree with it.

Beyond my petty opinion, there’s the very real question of how this tax effects its people. almost 87% of ya’ll go to work by car, and while sure, a gas tax would increase revenue. It is basically a flat tax.

Meaning that, no matter how rich or poor you are, or whether this gasoline is for a work truck or a bro truck, you’ll pay it. This comes with obvious side effects.

Maybe a rich person can afford paying the tax, where poor people might not be able to. You may point at the bus, but then again, no good public transport infrastructure doesn’t help, as does the fact that the bus still needs to get fuel, and any hike on fuel price also means a hike in ticket prices.

Maybe your business runs tight with fuel prices, and a gas tax would impact you greatly, specially if your business can’t afford the newest fuel efficient trucks that Bros seem to be stocking up on.

How do you get around this? well, I don’t know. Off the top of my head I can think of two progressive taxes:

Tax the infrastructure directly on income (as it is 87% of commuters that use cars) depending on income, obviously.

Tax the infrastructure directly on vehicle registration or plate tax. Charge an amount yearly based on the car’s value (a progressive tax) and get work trucks exempted from it, maybe have a even a rebate for those with the highest average fleet economy.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:37

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No sympathy from me or any Vancouver Oppo’s

Spanfeller is a twat > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 02/15/2018 at 10:39

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How many of you commute by car?

If 87% of americans didn’t commute by car, I’d agree with a gas tax, but its so widespread that if it were a flat tax it would be predatory on the poor.

Milky > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:41

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Our federal gas tax hasn’t been raised since ‘93, its time.

Michigan registration is based on the car’s value, but that goes to the state fund, not federal.

PartyPooper2012 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:41

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I believe not long ago NJ passed something like it. They then decided they would ask people if they are SURE they wanted the money to go to fixing roads or to politicians’ pockets (maybe not in those exact terms) Either way... NJ roads are still worse than thawing Russian roads... and Chris Christie is still bigger than uranus

I have slight allergic reaction every time I hear any politician proposing raising taxes to fix roads. When that doesn’t work, we will legalize marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth, bath salts and Monsanto cereal. Anything to put some money in their pockets.

fintail > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 02/15/2018 at 10:42

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Yeah, but you get something of personal benefit for your taxes. Murkans, not so much.

Spend some time in Seattle transit or traffic, no sympathy from anyone south of the border to those in the lower mainland absurdistan :)

Wacko > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:42

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seeing as the only county with a lower tax rate than the usa is mexico at 0%

I think that both mexico and the usa must raise the tax rate on gas.

a tax increase will encourage better millage and might actually change things.

https://jalopnik.com/1823032527

victor > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:43

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Gas tax is highly regressive and is already 18-19 cents a gallon. Bringing it up another 25 cents a gallon is a lazy way to up infrastructure funding on the backs of the majority of the people.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:43

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lets be honest, the only infrastructure that will see any of this gas tax is his southern wall

nerd_racing > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:44

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They should make it percentage based.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:44

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Tough to say.

I’d say we’d be similar to the US. A few urban centers with good/passable transit, but largely driving.

vondon302 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:45

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An actual gas tax in the states is long overdue I think but it will never pass the house or senate.

After the millionaire tax cut and the spending bill fiasco the feds are gonna have to get revenue somewhere before the deficit spirals out of control........ again.

Spanfeller is a twat > Wacko 02/15/2018 at 10:45

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Mexico could, and I would agree with it if the government ran like the american one.
Yes, even under the guise of an idiot, your government runs better than ours. But talking about the US, since the car is so widespread, a tax on gasoline (a flat tax) could be predatory on poor people.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > fintail 02/15/2018 at 10:45

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Fair points! I don’t use the transit, but I acknowledge that if others didn’t my daily drive would suck way, way more.

random001 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:45

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I have no issue with a gas tax, but $.25 seems pretty steep. I mean, even $.01 would generate a lot of revenue, right? It’s about 385 million gallons of gas bought each day. 1 cent tax would generate 1.4 billion a year. So multiply that out as you will, but 25 cents is $35 billion? Yeesh. Feels like we could balance a budget and maybe that would be better?

Spanfeller is a twat > Milky 02/15/2018 at 10:45

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have the feds get involved.

random001 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:46

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Also, you know damn well it’s not for infrastructure. It’s for whatever those snakes want it to be for. Like strippers and private planes.

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:46

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For the most part, I’m okay with this- - as long as you take the revenue generated from this and actually apply it to infrastructure (we’re not necessarily good at this in the US).

However, what bothers me is that could put more burden on the poor who need a car to commute (and there are a lot of people in this category here). So I’d rather see the money come from income taxes, personally.

One note on registration or plate taxes - - those are not done at the Federal level here in the US. It’s state by state, and costs vary wildly by state - some have a progressive tax based on car value as you suggest, others have a flat fee (like here in Illinois, where it’s $101).

Spanfeller is a twat > nerd_racing 02/15/2018 at 10:47

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Percentage on what?

Spanfeller is a twat > random001 02/15/2018 at 10:47

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Well, This is assuming it isn’t for that.. .

Spanfeller is a twat > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 02/15/2018 at 10:48

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Maybe? I wouldn’t care. You guys can’t afford breaking up with us.

So stop playing hard to get and acting up.

fintail > victor 02/15/2018 at 10:48

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Especially for those of us in WA state who have some of the highest in the land, yet still have crumbling roads and deficient transit.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:48

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Personally no problem with it if it all goes to infrastructure, but the burden of a tax like this is hardest on the working poor (and those who drive for a living).

Spanfeller is a twat > victor 02/15/2018 at 10:48

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But is it an increase to 25 cents or a 25 cent increase?

Wacko > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:49

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i’m canadian so taxes are normal and part of life to me.

it cost me about 85$ dollars cnd each time i fill up my pathfinder.

as i said before, driving is a privilege not a right. so you must pay if you want to use the infrastucture.

Spanfeller is a twat > random001 02/15/2018 at 10:50

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No, infrastructure is more important that the deficit. Because infrastructure, unlike tax cuts on the rich, actually helps the economy a lot!

But the funding can’t come from a flat tax because that would be predatory on the poor.

Urambo Tauro > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:51

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If the tax does get raised, I want there to be proof that it’s really going back into the infrastructure where it belongs.

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 02/15/2018 at 10:51

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I guess that since the car is so important in the US, attaching infrastructure to an income tax bill would be the best way.

crowmolly > PartyPooper2012 02/15/2018 at 10:52

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NJ is proof that both blue and red shirt wearing politicians are corrupt.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/15/2018 at 10:53

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Yeah, any flat tax on a non-luxury item is a unnecessary burden on the poor. That’s why I think funding shouldn’t come from a gas tax

MUSASHI66 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 10:54

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Average person drives 12000 miles per year. 1000 miles per month at USA average 23.6 MPG equals average person buying 42.37 gallons of gas.

At 25 cents, that equals $10.59 dollars extra on gas per month. Predatory on the poor? Give me a break. Just because you are poor doesn’t mean your car doesn’t damage the roads just as much as a rich man’s car. Just because you are poor, it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t participate in infrastructure maintenance.

Spanfeller is a twat > Wacko 02/15/2018 at 10:54

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Oh, driving is totally a luxury in countries with good public transport infrastructure. But in the US 87% of people use cars to go to work and you can’t simply levy a flat tax on all of them!

Spanfeller is a twat > Urambo Tauro 02/15/2018 at 10:55

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FOA?

Spanfeller is a twat > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 02/15/2018 at 10:57

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I consider that the Canadian one is an excise tax on fuel inefficient vehicles. I think that most of your funding comes from higher income taxes than the rest of North America...

PartyPooper2012 > crowmolly 02/15/2018 at 11:00

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They are same exact politicians. Just dressed in different color shirts. Kind of like a Yugo. No matter what color it is, it is still a piece of shit.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:01

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FOA will only tell you what they did with the money. I need it to be written into the law that raises the tax that the money can only be used for infrastructure repairs.

On a side note, infrastructure repair is about the only part of Trump’s platform that I am totally on board with.

Thomas Donohue > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:01

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I’ve been a fan of an increased tax per gallon for a while now, assuming the tax money is used correctly (I know, that’s a long shot). We should have increased the gas tax a few years ago when gas was $1.75 a gallon, but unfortunately it was an election cycle, so no one was willing to support it.

Gas prices in the last five years have gone from over $4.00 per gallon to lows under $1.50 per gallon. It’s a roller coaster. If we had added 10 cents in January of 2014 (3.25 per gallon would have gone to 3.35), another 10 cents in Jan 2016 (1.80 /gallon up to 1.90) and then a nickel last month in Jan of 2018 (2.70 up to 2.75) we’d already have the quarter tax in place. Gas today now would be 2.96 per gallon. *I’m using NJ avg prices for these calculations which sits at 2.71 right now*

While I realize this increases the pain, especially for the middle class, it’s something that needs to be done while gas prices are still reasonable. If they go above $4 again we’ll never get the tax implemented.

It’s a use-based tax, and the money should go for infrastructure, as well as credits for mass transit/hybrid/renewable energy transportation methods.

http://www.newjerseygasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Spanfeller is a twat > MUSASHI66 02/15/2018 at 11:03

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On Average:

poor people live further away from income sources (AKA more driving)
poor people cannot afford newer, fuel efficient vehicles (AKA more fuel)

Those ten bucks you say may seem like nothing to us, but it is a burden on poor people and it is an inefficient way of taxing because a rich person’s burden on 5000 dollars might be the same as a poor person’s burden on 30.

Yes and no, rich people might not effect the roads directly more than poor people, but spending more money means more use of roads by other vehicles (say amazon deliveries or other services) rich people always have a bigger burden on public funding than poor people. Walmart somehow managed to turn food stamps into income!

It also doesn’t cover that for businesses that work with trucks for more hours a gas tax could be hugely negative.

Wacko > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:04

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i live in rural canada, and don’t have access to public transit

and use my car to go to work every day. I use the roads that those taxes to maintain and build roads.

so Yes you can and must simply levy a flat tax on all of them.

the more you drive, the more you use the roads, the more you pay taxes.

Azrek > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:05

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I compare taxes like this to the Cigarette Tax. Folks are already spending the windfall they expect to get for taxing these types of things. Then the money doesn’t come in as folks buy more fuel efficent cars, stop smoking or get a bicycle. So they then have to hike the tax somewhere else.

Cigarette Taxes have generally always failed.

Spanfeller is a twat > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 02/15/2018 at 11:05

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yup, I think I agree on everything said in that comment.

Spanfeller is a twat > Wacko 02/15/2018 at 11:06

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how is it a luxury if it’s the only choice? wouldn’t a progressive tax make more sense?

Spanfeller is a twat > Azrek 02/15/2018 at 11:07

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Do 87% of americans smoke?

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:08

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Well the people that commute and can’t afford it will be the ones feeling the crunch. Meanwhile in the military I would use up very expensive stuff in training alone! I think they should maybe raise it a nickel and figure something out. I mean trump is a lying sack of shit and we should question anything he claims to have come up with. To be clear he is a sack of shit without the lying.

Spanfeller is a twat > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 02/15/2018 at 11:09

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Hey! that’s insulting to sacks of shit!

Ash78, voting early and often > Azrek 02/15/2018 at 11:10

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I thought the real goal of the cig taxes were to get people to stop smoking and provide a little bit of short term revenue for the government.

I know the goal was achieved for everyone I know. I smoked 1-2 packs a day at $2, but a couple years later at $5/pack it was impossible.

Azrek > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:11

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Maybe awhile ago...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK236771/

facw > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:11

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As I said in the comments on the FP article, I’m strongly in favor. The gas tax hasn’t been raised in decades and is thus shrinking due to inflation. Our infrastructure is clearly in need of more money. And really $0.25/gallon isn’t that much, we are still nowhere near European levels of taxation. Plus encouraging people to drive more fuel efficient vehicles is a benefit.

The big downside is that like any sales tax, it is fairly regressive, and it will take a while to adapt to. You want people to drive a more efficient car, and live closer to work, etc., but those changes are too burdensome to happen right away, they need to happen over the span of years. Ideally, I think you would ramp the increase over five years, and have it keep pace with inflation (or a funding target) after that, so it’s more gradual, and we don’t get stuck in this underfunding area again. You might actually increase it by more than $0.25 and use the surplus to take the edge off the increase for the poor (though you don’t want to completely eliminate pressure for more economical behavior).

190octane > Wacko 02/15/2018 at 11:13

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To be fair, $85 in your money is like $2.28 in ours so you shouldn’t complain.

Azrek > Ash78, voting early and often 02/15/2018 at 11:14

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http://oklahomawatch.org/2017/05/12/debate-over-existing-wells-stalls-gross-production-tax-increase/

http://reason.com/archives/2011/07/08/minnesotas-tax-failure-warning

It is great reading. Governments saw this as a way to make people healthy and gain money...but the checks they wrote weren’t able to be cashed as it actually worked....then they were left without the money they expected.

190octane > WilliamsSW 02/15/2018 at 11:15

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This is the problem I have with it. You just blew a $1.5 trillion hole in the deficit by cutting taxes on the richest Americans and then you want to add a majorly regressive tax that will hurt poor Americans the most?

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:16

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I’d say he should drip dead but I think the lump of clay we call Pence would start to bring the Handmaidens Tale to life! It’s a shitstorm.

Ash78, voting early and often > Azrek 02/15/2018 at 11:16

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I think they failed to account for the fact that 20-30 years ago, smoking was a given and cessation programs were slim.

Later, we had patches and gum and vaping and countless other ways to get away from smoking, all while municipalities cracked down on it. They should have seen this coming...

Thomas Donohue > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:17

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What sucks for the poor, or middle class (i.e. poor) is the fact that gas prices swing so wildly. If someone gets a new job, they might base their choice of apartment on rent + commuting costs. If they have to drive but can only afford an apartment 35 miles away, that’s 350 miles of commuting each week.

If gas is $2.25 a gallon when they make that decision, and then jumps to $4 again, they will see increased costs of $100 per month. That’s for someone with a car that gets ~25mpg. Do the math for a kid out of college who made the mistake of buying a pickup truck when he got his first job.

I feel that the tax will 1) make people think twice about what car they drive, and when they drive it; and 2)force people to consider mass transit, which will hopefully be improved with these taxes. Both of these things should bring down gasoline usage/demand, which ultimately brings down the cost.

People should have been thinking about this anyway, but taxes make people angrier and more likely to act on it.

MUSASHI66 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:17

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Everything you just said proves my point that flat tax on gasoline is not a bad thing. You are poor and you have to drive more - does that somehow mean you magically do less damage to the roads?

You have a business which operates vehicles - shouldn’t you pay for what you damage?

You get amazon deliveries? You pay for the product, you pay the tax on the product, you pay for the delivery of the product (prime is $100 per year, basically covers 9 months of this given price increase for gas for average family), you participate in the economy, and then with your plan, you are expected to pay more for gas taxes than the person poorer than you as well?

Flat gas tax - provided all the money collected does go toward the crumbling infrastructure - is a super simple way to be taxed for the infrastructure fairly and equally. I am already taxed through the nose because I make more than average. I get no tax breaks, I still pay over $1000 per year to the local school district although I’ll never have kids, my wife didn’t get any tax breaks for her student loan interest because she made too much money. Flat gas tax (which already exists and hasn’t increased since 1993) is a fair way to pay for what you use

“The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. The federal tax was last raised in 1993 and is not indexed to inflation, which increased by a total of 64.6 percent from 1993 until 2015.”

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:19

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I’m fine with paying my fair share of tax if it’s used well. Unfortunately, all I see is bureaucracy, waste & a skyrocketing national debt, so it’s hard to consider agreeing to sending more into the same inefficient system.

Spanfeller is a twat > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 02/15/2018 at 11:24

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I belive Paul Ryan would provoke a Fahrenheit 451 situation...

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:24

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Raising it by a quarter seems a little steep at first glance, but in general it is a discussion we should be having. There’s a couple of facets to this that are relevant. The federal gas tax was supposed to fund the federal contribution to road and highway projects, and we haven’t touched it since 1993. This is a flat tax, and it isn’t tied to inflation (although even a long-time republican chairman of the Senate Budget Committee advocated for the gas tax to be tied to inflation more than once). As such, the purchasing power of that tax has eroded ~70% just due to inflation alone since 93.

The other real issue it that fuel sold hasn’t kept pace with lane miles traveled, due to the vast gains in fleet fuel economy since 93. The calculations behind that tax rate in 1993 didn’t anticipate anything like the current CAFE standards of 45mpg and 19mpg for car and light trucks, respectively.

I see it as a relatively fair tax. The folks who drive the most contribute more to the collective upkeep of the roads they’re using.

Wacko > 190octane 02/15/2018 at 11:25

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to be fair

as of right now gas here is at 1.25 per litre

so at the moment it’s about $3.25 per gallon in US dollars

Spanfeller is a twat > facw 02/15/2018 at 11:27

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I agree it should be used as an excise tax with help from other taxes.

Excise taxes are meant to curve the economic impact of something (ie: make cigs more expensive, less people smoke), if the gas tax was levied with help of an income tax for the development of infrastructure and encouragement of more economical and ecological sound practices it would be killing two issues with the strike of a single pen.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/15/2018 at 11:29

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oh the cycle... boy I feel it too!

bhtooefr > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:31

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The externalities of fuel usage need to be internalized, raise the tax.

Then, reduce the impact on the poor through measures like:

Reducing income taxes on lower income brackets, or even creating negative tax brackets

Creating housing policies that make living closer to one’s workplace more affordable

Improving (or creating in the first place) mass transit infrastructure and service

Using policies like CAFE to ensure that efficient vehicles are sold even when the market prefers inefficient vehicles, so that they’re readily available in the used market

Spanfeller is a twat > Thomas Donohue 02/15/2018 at 11:32

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If we want to curve a societal practice like commuting by car, we need to think of a way that it doesn’t burden poor people because given the wealth of the nation it isn’t even necesary! I agree the gas tax could be used as an excise tax, but it has to be acompanied with a progressive tax and many benefits for the people that it burdens (say like having public transport available before taxing gasoline to hell and back!)

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:35

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Yeah its scary when your best option is to just let a human cheeto keep running the country...

Spanfeller is a twat > MUSASHI66 02/15/2018 at 11:38

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Didn’t rich people over there get a huge tax cut of late?

Any tax system is logically made to make being rich or being poor harder. It’s just how the maths should go. I like being wealthy and if that means I have to pay a big tax so be it. It is by no means a fair system and its just fine that way. If they US had a fair system your country wouldn’t be able to work.

If you hate taxes come live here in Mexico! We will show you what living in a society where there’s no interest in helping each other out is like.

I could agree with a gas tax if it comes with a progressive tax on income to help infrastructure.

Spanfeller is a twat > bhtooefr 02/15/2018 at 11:40

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That seem like a great solution!

Negative tax?

You went too far...

Azrek > Ash78, voting early and often 02/15/2018 at 11:40

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Sin Taxes don’t work...at least not for raising money.

Ash78, voting early and often > Azrek 02/15/2018 at 11:42

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Well, at least not when those taxes are in the hundreds of percent and rolled out quickly...

crowmolly > PartyPooper2012 02/15/2018 at 11:43

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It’s totally cliche’, but it’s the truth.

I live in NJ, and pay a lot of taxes here. I would not have nearly as big an issue with paying taxes if they actually paid for what they should. Roads? School funding? After school programs for working parents? No problem.

But we get hit up for a lot, and we pay it, and yet the money never quite makes it to the programs it should. Or if it does, only a fraction. The rest is soaked up by bureaucracy and fluff jobs. Like paying crews from 7-8AM when they only start working at 9, etc.

Thomas Donohue > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:46

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Like maybe funding mass transit by cutting corporate welfare and oil company subsidies?

Or maybe a national program with incentives to make a 50mpg car that costs less than $15,000? (Sounds like an idea someone would have had during the 70's. It’s a shame we still don’t have the technology 40 years later....) /s

WilliamsSW > 190octane 02/15/2018 at 11:46

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Yeah - that’s pretty much right where my mind went, too.

His Stigness > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:47

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25 cent increase.

bhtooefr > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:48

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Note that I’m a proponent of universal basic income, and a negative tax bracket is effectively one way to do it. But, it’s not necessary to solve the regressive nature of gas taxation.

Spanfeller is a twat > Thomas Donohue 02/15/2018 at 11:51

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Remove your stupid car import restrictions and you can have 50mpg Mexican cars all day long!

Spanfeller is a twat > bhtooefr 02/15/2018 at 11:52

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I’ll be in favor of universal income as soon as robots take over primary and secondary sectors of the economy.

This universal income however must come in exchange of participating in the tertiary and research sections.

Funktheduck > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:52

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Here’s the problem with exempting work trucks: it’s already an abused system. The wealthy already purchase their homes and vehicles through legitimate or shell companies to reduce taxes. I personally know people who put their family on the payroll for various tax reasons and so they can buy them cars through the company. Stay at home wife makes $40k/year doing “admin work” and gets a $65k+ Lexus as a “company car”.

In the US we already get a tax deduction for miles driven for work vehicles.

Spanfeller is a twat > Funktheduck 02/15/2018 at 11:54

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I guess that this conversation opens other tax wounds.

Should the whole system simply be scrapped and re imagined with loopholes in mind?

Thomas Donohue > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 11:59

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All those cars come with six bad hombres hidden in the trunk.

Must build wall.

BigBlock440 > MUSASHI66 02/15/2018 at 12:12

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Just because you are poor doesn’t mean your car doesn’t damage the roads just as much as a rich man’s car.

i.e. not much at all.

BigBlock440 > PartyPooper2012 02/15/2018 at 12:17

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Happened in PA, except they didn’t ask. Something like 75% of the new money went to the state police, even though it was all supposed to go to highway maintenance and projects.

PartyPooper2012 > BigBlock440 02/15/2018 at 12:21

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Now... soda tax in philly... everyone just buys their fix outside the tax zone tho...

I honestly don’t know how these people get elected. Allegedly they are supposed to be the forward thinking brightest crayons

Funktheduck > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 12:26

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There will always be loopholes. But, yeah, scrapping and starting over is about the only sane thing to do.

I was talking to a guy who was graduating law school. His specialty was estate planning. Estate planning is a fancy term for how to set up your stuff to pay as little in taxes as possible. I had a pretty long conversation with him. We discussed how to make the system more fair and how the wealthy get around things. Basically, every solution had a pretty easy work around if you have enough money.

Funktheduck > WilliamsSW 02/15/2018 at 12:27

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I don’t know if it’s a state thing but you are right. The gas tax was converted from a transportation tax to pay for roads to a general tax to pay for other stuff.

Funktheduck > Azrek 02/15/2018 at 12:30

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Same as the super speeder tickets here. If you qualify for super speeder (there’s a few different ways) it’s a minimum $200 added on that helps pay for critical care units or something. Problem is, it was fairly effective and curbed super speeding. They don’t make as much as they thought they would.

Azrek > Funktheduck 02/15/2018 at 12:35

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Or Red Light cameras.

190octane > Wacko 02/15/2018 at 13:15

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What’s a litre?

Wacko > 190octane 02/15/2018 at 13:18

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1 L, l = 0.26417205235815 gal (US)

nerd_racing > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 13:39

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percentage of the fuel cost.

MUSASHI66 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 14:23

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But the flat gas tax exists, it existed for decades, and it simply never grew with the inflation! This move would just catch us up with decades of stagnation. How was this never a problem before, how was this never predatory on the poor, but all of the sudden - if the increase happens - it is predatory and unfair??

MUSASHI66 > BigBlock440 02/15/2018 at 14:25

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It is not just car damage -most roads are damaged by weather. But the fact remains that if you use the roads, you should pay for the roads. What easier way to “charge” for that than flat tax - which btw existed for decades without being “anti-poor”, which hasn’t grown with inflation, and which hasn’t been raised since 1993?

190octane > Wacko 02/15/2018 at 15:50

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You weren’t taking me seriously, were you? I hope not.

Wacko > 190octane 02/15/2018 at 16:04

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no not at all, but that number was just too long not to share.

Spanfeller is a twat > MUSASHI66 02/15/2018 at 16:46

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The concept of flat taxing a necessity is predatory.

That’s why certain products in supermarkets here are tax exempt or have rebates, or you can get a food stamp.

If 87% of people use cars to work, it becomes a necessity. I think you guys should have much higher taxes... A looming deficit and income inequality as reasons.... But chose the right taxes to have!

Also, what the hell with the car usage too? Its so high this is a problem! I’d agree with a gas tax if 50% of the work force or less used cars...but it would be an excise tax rather than a budget making tax

MUSASHI66 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 18:22

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No, it is not predatory, because it is a necessity for everyone, not just the poor.

Groceries might not be taxed in most states, but they are taxed in a few, and are taxed on local or state level in others even if they are not charged federal taxes. And guess what, rich people eat food too and don’t pay taxes on it.

USA is a republic based on capitalism - not a socialist or communist country which is what current left seems to want it to be, with free this and that. I lived in a socialist/communist country for the first 19 years of my life. I would dread the day USA becomes anything like it. It seems the current state of the left is “we want to match Finland in education and healthcare, but we don’t want to pay 49-62% in personal income tax like they do”.

I think you have a huge misconception of what predatory means - something that is in the open and charged to everyone, regardless of sex, age, race or social status cannot be predatory. Is it predatory to the poor that car prices are going up constantly and that average price for a car is over $32k these days? After all, if you consider cars a necessity, then the price of cars going up every year is predatory by your definition. Same with a loaf of bread which used to be 99 cents. Same with every other food item.

EVERYTHING became more expensive since 1993 except for gas tax. Have you seen the roads in the USA lately? Have you seen the bridges falling on the cars below? Trumps infrastructure plan can’t happen soon enough.

Spanfeller is a twat > MUSASHI66 02/15/2018 at 19:29

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No one is in favour of keeping the tax so low, I simply state that there is a predatory nature to it.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > random001 02/15/2018 at 21:58

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Trust_Fund

except congress has to keep putitng money into the highway fund. So it is going to infrastructure.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Spanfeller is a twat 02/15/2018 at 21:59

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needs to be raised.

random001 > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 02/16/2018 at 08:00

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I see what you’re saying, and look at the fact that it’s Congress, and to that I say bullshit.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > random001 02/16/2018 at 19:59

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http://www.businessinsider.com/asce-gives-us-infrastructure-a-d-2017-3 Considering that we need about 4.5 trillion to get our highways, dams bridges up to snuff, as we’ve been kicking the can down the road for 50years, it isn’t enough.